I stumbled across your blog while I was doing some online research. I heartily agree with you that gardening sites usually offer little in the way of meaningful discussion. I, too, have been disappointed in my visits to such blogs.

Well, I think it is because most people don't want to think of gardening as a movement. Nor do I think they should.

I love the ladies over at Garden Rant and I like what they are doing, but my first thought was, "oh Jeeze, does everything in my life have to become a movement?"

Most people garden not because they want to change the world, but because they want to relax. Changing the world vary rarely involves relaxing.

I think that so many people have become use to the idea of blogs being a medium for political and policy commentary that we forget that blogs are first and foremost personal commentary.

I write occassionally about garden issues as they pertain to my life because, frankly, it's my blog and I can. But I would not expect anyone else to do any more than that.

This is a great discussion! When I think of what a basic human activity gardening is--surely as fundamental to our lives as, say, cooking--I feel sure that there is room for a little bit of everything.

As a cook, I'm not all that interested in grand debates about the cultural and political implications of what we eat, although I might tune in for some of that discussion from time to time. I might also just want to clip a yummy recipe illustrated with a pretty picture. But as a gardener, I am really engaged on all levels and I want to get INTO it!

I just long for that kind of diversity in the gardening media. I want people to be able to engage at whatever level works for them. That's what's so great about blogs--you can find a really obscure niche (look at stuffonmycat.com, for example!) and still put your ideas out there and connect with a community of readers!

Pasasianbiz - thanks for the vote and agreeing with my view. All the best with the research.

Hanna in Cleveland - It's not that I'm looking for every second post to be about saving your neighbourhood from noxious weeds and lobbying politicians to regulate the dumping of garden waste.

I'd just like to see a little more biff and passion as posts rally around a certain topic.

As an example, I made some statements about Garden Gnomes recently and it seemed every man and his dog had an opinion on it and posts were turning up everywhere (not just on gardening blogs). This is a healthy sign of the blogosphere showing that people are willing to express themselves regardless of whether they face later reprisals or not.

Amy Stewart - I'm honoured to have you comment on my mere mortal blog. Great points you made as well.

I hope this post may be a catalyst for furthering discussion at whatever level and will see the maturing of garden bloggers as a community.

I know--I'm a romantic idealist.

I think blogs still have the sterotype of being on-line journals and about our personal journeys, and not about discussion.

I've checked out the forums, which are created solely for the sake of discussion, but I've been disappointed and seldom found an active discussion I felt like jumping in on.

The blogs/forums with lots of activity seem to be about politics or TV. I guess these topics are just more prone to dicussion.

Nelumbo - I think you're right. I think that most people would rather leave a blog than say something that may offend.

While I'm not for hurting people's feelings it would be better to see some honest discussion arise so that we could all learn.

In fact, I'm happy for people to criticise my blog posts and the advice that I give. I'm sure it's not all that great that the minority stop to tell me it is.

Stuart, thanks for making this discussion happen! Me, I like to create places where people can disagree even passionately, and still treat everyone involved with respect. Unlike the rough-and-tumble world of political blogs, gardening blogdom is a pretty civilized place - coz gardeners are naturally nice people, doncha think?

Susan - you've hit the nail on the head. "...I like to create places where people can disagree even passionately, and still treat everyone involved with respect."

Dialogue, even with conflict, can be a great learning environment so long as respect is present. I agree that gardeners' are naturally nice people and we're happy to stop and smell the roses.

It would be a shame to see the gardening blogosphere tread the same weary path as political blogs. However, it would also be a shame for garden bloggers to just use their blogs as a "show-and-tell" forum. We're smart people too with a pulse on what occurs in our global backyard. Let's just start talking about it.

Well, I left my full personal opinion on this matter in my post today, on my blog, since that seems to be what the aim of this is.

I have to say, again. Why does everything in our lives have to be talked about and discussed to death in order to be meaningful?

You say community needs discussion, but communities are not built on discussions. They are built on comradery and acceptance and a common thread. Garden bloggers have that without any sort of discussion going on.

All I want from my garden is the beauty and all I want from other gardens is their beauty. I just want to have someone tell me I did a good job and I want to be able to tell someone else they did a good job. In that, I have found a very nice community.

I am sorry so many people find this community to be boring, but beyond that it becomes work rather than fun and I didn't start gardening so I could do even more work.

My blog is about me and I really don't care if others find it boring or not.

I agree with Hannah in Cleveland that “Most people garden not because they want to change the world, but because they want to relax. Changing the world vary rarely involves relaxing.” This may explain the lack of back and forth you mentioned. It’s also possible that most gardeners, being a generally courteous lot, have made it a habit to not comment negatively on the neighbor’s ghastly new landscape, which the neighbor is so proud of. When you blog you let the world know what you are thinking. That neighbor just might see what you have written.

When I started my blog I wanted a way to communicate to my customers, in an informal way, about gardening in our unique region, goings on at the nursery, pictures of a cool tree in bloom downtown, garden club meeting, etc. I wasn’t going to discuss anything that might offend any of my customers. If I start ranting on some “hideous” landscape I have seen, the customer that thought the landscape was great now, perhaps, won’t shop with me. Hey, let me tell you, when you make your living from gardeners, you become super sensitive to offending anyone’s particular taste or ideas.

I do however love reading, and commenting on, some of the more lively discussions going on. What is going on in the gardening blogosphere is so important to me, that I can’t imagine anyone in the horticultural business not taking part, or at least watching. By blogging your thoughts, you people are saying things that I would never hear otherwise. This is fantastic! I have been bombarded by garden center trade magazines that are telling me that to appeal to this or that social-economic-age group I need to tear my old funky store building down, put up a new Euro-Style garden center/pet store/coffee house, and “oh my god” you don’t have a scanner at the check out? How can you tell what you have sold? How do you reorder? I guess I am doomed.

But wait, along come garden bloggers and I find out that what I had suspected all along is true. There is no gardening crisis. We are not going to run out of impassioned gardeners, many in generation x and y do like to garden, and there are still plenty of people that do like small, well run, funky garden centers.

Some garden bloggers are people proud of the garden they have created, others are on a mission, while still others want to vent. For me, it’s like having a panel of customers around, day or night. The best part is, this panel is not intimidated by me, and tells it like it is.

I can't tell you how amazed I am that we might actually be achieving my goal. Discussion is starting to get lively and I'm so encouraged that gardeners are putting their viewpoints forward.

I don't agree with them all and as you can read they certainly don't all agree with me. But that's ok. We're allowed to be different, otherwise our gardens would be boring clones and you would only need one gardening blog in your news aggregator.

If you have the time head over the Hanna in Cleveland's post and check out her thoughts - it's great.

Trey - your comments were great. It' so interesting to hear from the other side of the fence as you share from a retail perspective. Fortunately no one's buying anything from me so I don't mind if people's viewpoints differ from mine.

Hopefully they'll embrace the conversation and we'll all move forward.

Trey, I also agree that it's so great to have someone from the nursery biz chime in. I read those industry magazines that claim to know what consumers want and I just laugh. "Do it for me?" "Make it easy?" Are they kidding?

I am a total plant addict and the people who feed my addiction are getting rich. All you gotta do is tap into that motherlode of horticultural passion, and gardeners will get all glassy-eyed and hand over their credit cards.

But yeah, it's funny that we're all out here blogging about what we want and what we don't want, and I wonder why the industry isn't taking notes?

I actually thought quite a lot about this topic since you posted it, Stuart, which is why I'm unusually late commenting.

I thought about it from a general gardening point of view and then realised that I can't speak for gardeners in general, only myself in particular.

My blog was originally intended as a purely gardening blog, but then other topics crept in and I'm quite happy about that.

I don't have a lot of technical garden knowledge; most of what I've learned has been through trial and error, commonly called experience. Consequently, I don't feel qualified the argue the rights and wrongs of many gardening issues. I've also said on other occasions that gardening is subjective - what some gardeners think is right and absolutely love, other gardeners think is totally wrong and wouldn't be seen dead doing that or growing it.

If I was a professional gardener I may be more inclined to weigh in with my five cents worth, but at present I just feel that with most issues, everyone's entitled to an opinion, and if I don't agree with someone else's then I just ignore it.

But when it's all boiled down, perhaps the reason I don't get fired up on too many occasions could be that I'm just plain lazy.

Well, Stuart, you wanted some "meaningful and continued dialogue." I guess you got it! It's funny how some topics get a rash of comments while others don’t. You’re a great sport, and will look forward to more “dialogue”. The only part I can’t promise from my end is “meaningful”.

Amy Stewart has promised to bring cookies to the “Latin Club Meetings.” I am going to see if EAL at “Gardening While Intoxicated” will supply some nice Australian wine. Nothing white though, I think a big bold red is more appropriate to Latin studies. I can’t imagine sitting through one of those meetings without some!

Now, who will supply the plane tickets?

Hey Stuart, I don't have time to have an involved discussion...I'm too busy gardening! :) What I enjoy is learning something new about a plant (or other thing) or discovering something I haven't seen before, or just seeing what other people are growing.
I'm also very interested in seeing how other people live their lives, where they live, reading about their thoughts, etc. I tend to agree with Hanna. Garden blogging is more about sharing than getting into serious discussions.

Alice - I must admit that many times I feel a bit lazy and don't comment either. It's weighing up the time commitment to get involved and sometimes you never back to a discussion that you may have wanted to be part of. Thanks for coming back. Your 5 cents worth is valued.

Trey - seems like I did get what I was after. I'm amazed at the calibre of bloggers weighing in as well. People who I admire and enjoy reading their blogs on a daily basis thought this was a topic worth commenting on.

Maybe we could have a e-latin club meeting, drink e-cabernet and eat some of those fine e-cookies from Amy.

Kerri - it's interesting that you bought up being too busy to get involved because you're gardening. Maybe my problem is that the winter weather has kept me indoors and as the saying goes, "idle hands..."

Just for the record. Although it seems this dialogue may have stirred up some dissension between Hanna from Cleveland and myself, I want to point out that I'm a big fan of her blog and love reading her stuff. I've even had her blog featured as the blog of the week. Keep it up Hanna - you're doing some great stuff.

Discussion is a good thing because discussion is what gets readers returning to see what others have said. I know it's hard to get a discussion going about "here's some photos from my garden" (and I'm guilty of lots of posts like that -- even the most introverted gardeners have a show-off streak), but I've also posted about issues and events and still not raised a discussion. Are gardeners just not a chatty bunch? Or are we in the northern hemisphere just too busy this time of year?

A blog is a diary and someone's personal space. If they don't want interactivity, it's their choice. I think what you're referring to is a forum; that's where interactivity exists and is to be expected. Blog=private space; forum=open discussion. It would be nice to separate the two properly. You remind me of a neighbour I used to have who used to stick his head over the fence (that divided us) to comment on everything when all I wanted to do was enjoy gardening in peace, at my own pace, in my own way and PRIVATELY. He never could mind his own business... :)

Reading Dirt - great point. This was the start of my frustration as well. I knew people were reading my posts but no-one seemed to stop and care about making a comment.

It seems that sometimes you need to go the whole way and share your frustrations before you get a bite at meaningful dialogue.

Janet - this is a fair comment. People certainly do have the right to keep to their own and protect their space but if this were completely true then why do they have "comments enabled?" Are they just hoping that people will drop by and say "Nice flower" "Great photo" or do they want their readers to respond and interact with them?

Posting something on your own "private" blog is worth doing, but I hazard a guess that many of us want people to take the time to view, read and enjoy what we are showing and talking about.

I'm not sure gardeners need a soapbox--I find most garden bloggers walk the walk when it comes to "effects of climate change, the merits of natural pest control or even suburban guerrilla gardening and the push for more inner-city parks." It is hard to find a garden blogger that isn't aware of these things and that may be why you must go outside of a personal blog to a separate "forum" for continued discussion of these issues. Whether or not a garden blogger chooses to make "meaningful and continued dialogue" as a post ebbs & flows and what is stimulating for one blogger & reader, may not appeal to another at all. That is the beauty of the garden blog--every garden is different & puts out its own separate world to those who visit. I happen to thrive on the mundane in the garden & the discussion that crops out of that, but that is me. What I see these days is the personal garden blog evolving into a billboard of advertising--google ads for garden products, flashy buttons for magazine subscriptions, garden bloggers hoping to make some money while blogging. I find all that advertising gets in the way of meaningful garden discussion. Ye olde homegrown garden blog is beginning to disappear and in its place is the future format of on line garden magazine.

Wow Judith. There's a whole new discussion wrapped in that comment.

I'm taking the swipe at advertising on gardening blogs as a personal finger-point so let me make some comments.

When we subscribe to magazines or purchase Amy Stewart's latest gardening book do we feel that we've been cheated for having to pay for something that we wanted? Surely not. Do we feel ripped off that the publishers ae making money out of our hobby? Again, surely not.

The advertising I run on my blog hopefully enhances what I discuss and gives gardeners some options which wouldn't be there if I didn't host them. Am I making some money off the advertising? Sure. Is that bad? Is it bad that Amy Stewart profits from her book sales?

I don't intend to advertise products, services, websites etc that are not relevant to my gardening readership. If you don't think they're relevant to you and you detest them, then ignore them.

Advertising is not a bad thing. It enhances my experience in the same way as finding them in a gardening magazine. Most times I ignore them and then sometimes I find something new or different that could greater my personal gardening hobby.

Honestly, I get a little frustrated by this kind of commentary. I would always answer the same thing to people who complained about forums: So then DO something about it!!! You want to see discussion, go discuss! Don't just sit back and complain! Go around to other blogs and chime in! Sheesh!

Please stop by and disagree with anything I have to say! Warning, I will defend myself... Unless, of course, you're right. ;o)

Janet, this is hilarious:

"You remind me of a neighbour I used to have who used to stick his head over the fence (that divided us) to comment on everything when all I wanted to do was enjoy gardening in peace, at my own pace, in my own way and PRIVATELY."

You have a blog, you post on blogs, yet you're bothered by your lack of privacy on these blogs?? What am I missing here?

You had all this great discussion on my birthday and I missed the party! Oh, well, better late than never.

I've been spending more and more time lately reading and commenting than I have been posting. For the last year, I have been working hard to make a business start-up become functional, leading to less time and money for the garden, but lots of time online.

I've seen lots of interesting conversations occuring in comments. Some blog formats even let you click to be emailed any other comments to the post you've commented on!

Which is nice, and keeps the conversation going if you don't happen to check back in a timely manner.

My point is, I think what you are looking for already exists. I know that I have a cluster of online 'friends' that I've met on gardening blogs. We make up a community that encourages, educates and supports each other.

I feel secure in the thought that I will continue to learn and grow through interacting with others by 'visiting' their gardens, even when I haven't anything to say on a particular day.

*raises a mug of strong tea*
Cheers.

Does anyone remember the impassioned discussions about mulch, garden design, and invasive plants that used to arise on the gardenweb forums—the same site that hosts garden voices? (There was even a marriage proposal on the mulch forum.) I learned a lot from them. I'm not sure blogs can perform quite the same function.

Blogs are a very different entity. They are self-indulgent and egotistical methods of expression. In a good way. I never know what to expect from them. I use mine as a writing exercise more than anything else.

But the garden blogs I've been reading are certainly kinder and gentler, with a more civilized comment culture, than many of my local community blogs. Another good thing.

Hi Stuart - I'm just catching up on archived posts here, since I'm (relatively) new to the site. This post definitely caught my eye - mainly because I strongly feel that the gardening community is seeing some of the more subtle (and less subtle) changes in our landscape due to global warming. We tend to not only follow our plants, but we're also intimately aware of the birds and butterflies that frequent our gardens - these changes have been evident to me since I've been tending my acre along the South Carolina coast. I need to think about this a bit more - and perhaps post something on this.